Anita Sethi 

Jo Swinson MP: ‘I first wrote to my MP when I was about 10’

The Lib Dem deputy leader talks about the inspiration for her activism and the motivation for writing her book about gender equality
  
  

Jo Swinson MP, deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats.
Jo Swinson MP, deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats. Photograph: Richard Saker/The Observer

Jo Swinson MP is deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats. The former government minister’s achievements include introducing shared parental leave and legislating to require companies to report their gender pay gaps. She wrote Equal Power: Gender Equality and How to Achieve It while out of parliament, before regaining her seat in 2017. The book is published in paperback in February.

Your aim for the book, you write, is to help people “feel encouraged, empowered and emboldened to take action that will challenge gender inequality”. What kinds of action?
I wrote the book out of a continued desire to change the world – we need to radically change things and have much more equality. I wanted to give some practical steps because people often feel powerless and underestimate their own power to make change – I’ve felt like that and I’m a politician. In everyday life, there are things you can do differently. If you cycle to work, that’s you breaking stereotypes of how a woman should be. If you volunteer with a domestic violence charity you’re helping victims of these power structures. If you’re invited to speak at a conference, ask if there’s a balance of genders in the line-up. If you’re in a book group, cover as many books by women as male authors. There’s an example I give of an American author who found that when she submitted the same novel under a male name, this male name was better at writing the same book as the female name. Charlotte Brontë had to be Currer Bell, but even today this happens.

When did you realise that you wanted to make a change in the world?
When I was a little girl, about eight, I remember going into the Body Shop – that was my first introduction to campaigning. There would always be a petition at the till about fair-trade or stop testing on animals, and the message was: get involved and make change. I signed those petitions, I got involved with my school council, I first wrote to my MP when I was about 10. I always wanted to make a difference.

You write about the harassment and abuse experienced by female MPs. This month MPs have demanded better security outside parliament after MP Anna Soubry was called a Nazi by protesters. What are your thoughts about that?
I’ve seen the footage and it’s shocking. Jo Cox was murdered for doing her job; she was going to her constituency and a far-right neo-Nazi murdered her. The security issue is real, and no one should feel that they can’t say what they think because of abuse and intimidation. It’s very important in our democracy that we see that, yes, emotions run high with the Brexit debate on both sides, but we need to be able to have that debate. I think in this country we have lost the art of disagreeing well. I wish we could rediscover that skill, otherwise we have a very polarised and divided society. I wholeheartedly disagree with Brexiters on what vision they have and what they want to see for the country and I think Brexit is going to be incredibly damaging, but it doesn’t make them evil people. I think social media has fanned the flames of people seeking to divide rather than bring together. We need more humanity.

You made a step forward in modernising the workforce by becoming the first MP to take your baby into a Commons debate – what do you hope that will achieve?
I think it’s important that we challenge the idea that women who have babies are not fit for work and don’t have value. There is massive pregnancy discrimination, in parliament and right across society.

You read an influential book aged 16. Tell us about that…
I won a school prize and was given a bookshop voucher and chose Why Good Girls Don’t Get Ahead But Gutsy Girls Do by Kate White and it really spoke to me because it’s saying we’re brought up to be good girls, afraid to break the rules. I knew when I took my son Gabriel into the chamber in September that I was kind of breaking the rules. I had this heart beating loudly but also thought that I needed to do it as a way to make progress. I still have a good girl deep inside, but also recognise that it’s worth saying things people will disagree with or get annoyed. That book made me grapple with the good-girl mindset and recognise that being a good girl is not always the best strategy. I was putting it into practice pretty soon thereafter.

You went on to become the youngest member of parliament aged 25…
Yes, I joined the Lib Dems the following year when I was 17 at university, and first stood for parliament when I was 21. There was quite a bit of ageism, though being in my 30s I still get patronised sometimes. It was an environment in which most others were nearly 30 years older than me and mostly men. I was fortunate that among the Lib Dems there were other young women. We had some camaraderie. I think that support networks are crucial for women.

What kind of reader were you as a child?
I loved reading. I was one of those kids who was supposed to go to bed but had a torch under the duvet. That love of reading stayed with me. When I was 10 I wanted to be an author, so it’s nice to have fulfilled that. I’m glad my oldest son, who is five, seems to love books – it’s great to see that joy, as reading is a gateway to whole worlds.

Which recent books have influenced you?
Listening to and understanding other people’s experiences is incredibly important – I know what it’s like to be a white, middle-class, mum of two who’s Scottish, a humanist, liberal, and an MP. I read Reni Eddo-Lodge’s book [Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race] and now understand inequality in this country much better. And Poverty Safari [by Darren McGarvey] – it’s absolutely excellent and fascinating for me because I grew up in Glasgow too, in a more affluent area, but reading that in-depth, first-person account of poverty is incredibly powerful.

Which books are on your bedside table?
I’ve just finished Vox by Christina Dalcher. I got it for Christmas and read it in two days. It’s like a Handmaid’s Tale dystopia and women are not allowed to speak more than 100 words a day and must wear a bracelet which gives them a shock of 1,000 volts if they go above that. Hello World by Hannah Fry is excellent. Ten Arguments For Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now by Jaron Lanier is about how we are quicker to anger than we are to love – and because you can generate that quick reaction on social media, you get clickbait. There’s great stuff that social media has the potential to do but the mob mentality is very unkind.

“Instead of despairing at the world, let’s roll up our sleeves and change it”, you write. Have you had moments of despair?
I lost my seat in 2015 – my husband and I lost our jobs on the same day and we had a 16-month-old son, so that was quite tough. I would say I felt worse after the Brexit vote. It’s not just that Britain had voted to leave the EU, it was: what does this say about the country we are? But deciding to take action is what’s made me feel better. I think that’s the case with gender equality but also with Brexit and how we get a better politics and how we try to heal division in society – the power of taking action and doing something. We all have moments of despair where we think – is it really worth it? – but that’s where friends, family, loved ones helped me through. And also remembering inspiring women: you think of what the suffragettes went through – imprisoned, force-fed; and you think about women today around the world who are fighting for human rights or imprisoned. You think of these people and you think, well I’ll have my little moment, then I’ll have a cup of tea and get on with it and do what I can. I think often out of those times do come the seeds of resistance and change.

Equal Power is published in paperback by Atlantic on 7 February (£8.99). To order a copy for £7.91 go to guardianbookshop.com or call 0330 333 6846. Free UK p&p over £15, online orders only. Phone orders min p&p of £1.99

 

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